I concur, you don't shoot to wound. You shoot to kill. As such, if I can't hit my T box to incapacitate my attacker I'm taking shots at both the heart and liver.



Yep, from some of the incidents I've seen with .22 in particular they don't bounce around (except inside the cranium) so much as they follow along the path of a bone they come in contact with. Yeah, .22 is a easy to shoot caliber but I'm not staking my life on the ability to put one through the ocular or nasal cavity under pressure against a rapidly advancing threat.

I'll leave that .22 business to the spooks and squirrel hunters.



We can agree on that. Something else to consider is volume of fire. I'd personally rather have a F/A MP5SD at hand to end a threat than a S&W 500.

every round is bad a** in full auto .....even 5.56 I loved my SAW back in the day is there better yes ...but at that time holly s*** I loved it of course that was in training i was switched to 240 and rifleman as the first D came around...

Haha, nobody wants the SAW in garrison. That's why it's always given to the cherries, especially the short ones.

yea i was the smallest of the lot but was one of the best

I would just like to interject a couple things.
1. I have killed more deer with 223 than any other round, a 55grain hollowpoint has consistantly killed the s*** out of something alot tougher than a person with a lung shot.
2. I prefer 40S&W ,I have my reasons that Im sure have thier merits and downfalls, but I worked as a medic for 12 years and in my experience the lethality of a GSW had much more to do with where the person was hit and what kind of ammo was used (hollowpoints really level the playing field) than the caliber used.
3. There is a breadth of expierence and expertise on this board, I have found that there is almost always something to be learned from another person. Just because you have never had a flag on your shoulder doesnt make you a laymen, and just because you have, doesnt make you an expert. I know that guys who have served have an knowledge base I do not and I appreciate you guys sharing. I have learned alot from my conversations with servicemen , especially in the combat medical area, but thier information is skewed by the parameters of the expierences they have had.
4. The new Ecoboost line from Ford is bad a** HP and torque of a big 8 from a flexfuel 6 is some impressive s***.
5. Tracers rock out with thier c*** out
6. I love beef jerky but I dont think SlimJims really count as a meat product.

That's another thing. Personally, I don't feel that volume of fire is of paramount consideration for a civilian. Military, probably, but I don't pretend to be knowledgeable of military needs. I don't even pretend to be knowledgeable of all civilian needs. Some may require in their current situation, more high capacity than I do.

I know your stating the s&w 500 to illustrate a point, but rhetoric aside, I don't advocate that either. Can you imagine tapping one of those off in a convenience store without hearing protection?

Yeah, they were just illustrative examples. I could've just as easily went with 10/22 and Mosin Nagant M44. Volume of fire is always relevant for me. If I have to clear holster I'm unleashing controlled pairs until the perp has stopped twitching. It's really up to him whether it's two shots or 20 coming at him.

I agree with 98pointsix on ammo though. It's a critical cog on the gear in the machine. That's why I carry hollowpoints in my .40 yet I carry ball in my .45 you need to use the right scalpel for the operation.

I can pretty much bet on only two controlled pairs from me. One fired at the perp. One of turds fired into my shorts.



I agree too. HP in my .357's. RNL in my .45 colt. I suppose you pistol guys have to worry more about cycling etc too. Most anymore eat everything though.

Any bullet will kill people. There was a huge study a while back and even s*** .25ACP had basically the same mortality rate as .45.

It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it.

Amen to that.

This is true, and spooks still love the .22 for assassinations if you believe some online reports. Me personally, I doubt I'll ever be in the position to sneak up on someone and murder them before they're aware of my presence.

I think spooks prefer the heart attack method more often....

....http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/18/news-of-the-world-sean-hoare

think i posted that its all about shot placement on page 1 or 2 i cant remember

I'm here for the Glock Bang.. er, I mean 9mm Bang...!!!



I love the

How's the p**** a** Glock holdin' up? Bounce any 9mm rounds off any foreheads lately?

lol

I think it is probably like on the religious forums I go to. Every so often we get some full of them self Evangelical missionary in their that thinks their s*** don't stink and everyone should fall all over what they have to say.

Soldiers can be that way to.
I'm not a soldier.

I don't want to be a soldier.

I am not bound by the same rules as soldiers.

and therefore, I do not arm myself in the same way as a soldier and not going to use take your (in general) war stories as reasons that I should do things.

I meant with FMJ rounds, but I'm this: