Do you think that America could have become as great as she is had she not been founded on the principals of Christianity? Why or why not? What things from Christianity helped make America great?

As a Christian, I don't think this country was founded on any religious principals, I think this country was founded on the principals of freedom; religion just happens to be one of those freedoms.

We can go to the obvious points against this country being founded on Christian principals. Slavery is clearly not a Christian principal, but this country was somewhat founded on slavery.

The freedom to make your life as you see fit made this country great, not religion... Capitalism, the freedom to make as much money as you please, had a bigger role than religion.

Juan, where did the principals for freedom come from? Where did the concept of "freedom of religion" come from? Where did the concept of personal property and the freedom to make money come from?

Why did we have slaves than, if we are a Christian founded nation and freedom came from Christianity.... and I only mention this because it is the easiest, and most obvious arguement.

Enlightenment philosophy. Freedom of religion sure didn't come from Christianity. Personal property and capitalism might share some correlation, but correlation does not imply causation.

This country was not founded upon Christian principles, and it can be debated that the principles that this country was founded upon lasted up till the 19th century, or if it really is "great" as so often asserted.

And where did the main impetus to stop slavery come from? Worldwide, not even just limited to the US, worldwide the greatest opposition to slavery has come from Christians. In our own US history, the Declaration of Independence is full of the seeds of the demise of slavery- I could point you to numerous history books to back that up. Slavery was the subject that literally almost tore our fledgling country apart. Founding Brothers is a great book about the founders, and the political realities that they faced at the time. A really good movie that I saw this past year that touches on Christianity and slavery is "Amazing Grace", the story of Wilberforce and his battle against slavery in England. Highly recommended.

Yay misdirection!

There was nothing Christian about the founding of this country

1 Samuel, 15:23 "For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft."

1 Peter 2:13: "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Thomas Jefferson "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814

Ben Franklin "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -in Poor Richard's Almanac
Ben Franklin "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." -in Poor Richard's Almanac

John Adams "The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Paine "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.

This country was founded in liberty and freedom I see little of that in Christianity, of course I see little of that in this country right now as well

pwnage

There is nothing in the Bible that says slavery is bad... there's verses all over that say that "slaves be subject to your masters" and rules for what male slaves can do that females can't, how many times you can beat your slaves for various offenses, etc. The Bible is perfectly fine with slavery... that's one of the reasons that I see that book as horridly immoral.

ugh..Wars have been waged over god money land and also bitches ...........

im 1/2 christian and 1/2 Atheist (Ivel doesn't believe) tho Levi does ..f*** me right at war with myself all the time
Ivel thinks evolution is the key .....(pssst.lemme type)...no let me get to the point before they think im looney

anyway to the point regardless of how this sinking ship was founded ivel and I think that christian principles are good for everyone


ima try and go get some sleep now been up 53 hrs
ill write a real response tomorrow ...i just wanted to let you all know yaw haven't rid yourself s of me yet

Not misdirection. I just completely ignored you.

Why do we have slaves now? (And make no mistake, the slave trade is alive and well, right here in the United States.) Greed, avarice, pride, arrogance, envy, lust- these vices we have always had with us- and how could slavery continue even in this "enlightened" day and age? Why does any evil persist? Because some people make huge profits from the evil, and good men and women do nothing to stop it.

These tired atheist quotes are listed on every atheist site trying to disprove any Christian roots to our heritage. It is easy to misquote the founders- it happens all the time, by all sides, by Christians and atheists, by gun control freaks and by 2nd amendment advocates. Misquoting the founders has become a cottage industry, and at least some of your quotes listed are fabrications.

I do not necessarily disagree that many forms of organized religion "have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man". I have seen much in organized religion that is obscene, that is wrong, that is manipulative or self serving. But that does not mean that I cannot see the beauty of the simpleness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus was a revolutionary who confronted the religious leaders of his day. Until you grasp how radical Jesus really was, and how he directly confronted and criticized the religious thinking of the day, you don't understand Jesus.

Again, I can point you to some good books on the founders if you really desire to read what they wrote, in context, about God and His place in their thoughts as they constructed the constitution.

+100 AGREE

I'm used to that. Christians have been doing it for years.

Doesn't change the points in my post's validity though.

You asked:


I replied:


You were operating under a erroneous assumption. It's not up to me to speculate on where you got it, but since I have run into it before ad nauseum, and almost verbatim to the manner in which you presented it, I will assume that the idea is not one of your own devising, but a regurgitation of something that you heard and felt sounded good.

I would hope, that since you did not defend it, and instead choose to respond to a point about slavery, that you had researched the topic, as I have, found that I was right, and decided that since this is the interwebs, that you would "ignore" the post, and hope that it went away. Which, honestly, I would have respected, as I too understand that this is the internet, we are protected by our anonymity, and the only method you could employ for saving face would be to pretend like you didn't see the post.

That all ended with the post that you just made saying you "ignored" it. This tells me that you just can't keep your f***ing mouth shut.

I can pretty much bet that you saw this was a gun site, and since in the narrow minded world view that I run into over and f***ing over again with Bible thumping Christians, is that there are only two basic types of people in this world. Conservative, patriotic, meat eating Christians, and spineless, liberal ,America hating, atheists, you probably felt that this would be a receptive place to ask your loaded question.

It doesn't fly here though. What I've seen of the people here, whatever religion of politics that they might hold, are f***ing fed up with the party line and it's bullshit. Which you my good sir, in this case, represent. We are tired of you s*** not because we have an agenda, but because it is s***.





Jesus was f***ing radical. He was Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and Malcom X all rolled into one. Turn the other cheek was not about non-violence, walk a mile in another's shoes was not about understanding, and give the shirt off your back was not about charity. Just to name a few. I'm neither a Christian nor Atheist, and I don't have to be to feel the teachings have meaning. Of course, I'm talking about the real f***ing teachings, not the popular concept of them here.





I prefer to read the texts written by the founders in order to get an idea of what ideas they were in favor of instead of relying on books written about the founders, thank you very much.

So now, if you want to have a f***ing rational discussion, I'm all f***ing ears.

BAMN... its the f***ing Catalina wine mixer......... you just got 1000 points Thor

Thor 1100
HolyLamb 1

Why do kids die of cancer? ..science can explain

Because they think dirty thoughts. Fuckin Duh

OK f*** the founders ( I will concede this point completely)
Did I miss the mark on the Bible quotes??
Christianity is drenched in servitude, unquestioning blind faith, and subjication to authority. Those just dont seem to be principles one builds a revolution upon.
I think you might want to look into the cottage industry of misquoting the Bible to make it not seem to be a collection of intollerant, my way or the hiway nonsensical rules meant to herd people in the desired direction of those that have deemed themselves to be our "saviors"

hahahaha